Obama admin re-declares war on legalized marijuana
Posted by Mike E on May 6, 2011
The following is from the National Organization for the Reform of Marijuana Laws (NORML).
Obama Administration Steps Up Its Rhetoric In Medical Marijuana States
by Paul Armentano
Deputy Director NORML
The Obama administration’s position on medical marijuana, circa 2009 (via the Ogden memo to all United States attorneys):
“The prosecution of significant traffickers of illegal drugs, including marijuana, and the disruption of illegal drug manufacturing and trafficking networks continues to be a core priority in the Department’s efforts against narcotics and dangerous drugs, and the Department’s investigative and prosecutorial resources should be directed towards these objectives. As a general matter, pursuit of these priorities should not focus federal resources in your States on individuals whose actions are in clear and unambiguous compliance with existing state laws providing for the medical use of marijuana.”
The Obama administration’s position on medical marijuana, circa 2011 (via the May 2, 2011 letter sent from the office of the United States Attorney, District of Arizona, to the Arizona Department of Health Services re: the implementation of the voter-approved Medical Marijuana Program):
“The United States Attorneys Office … will vigorously prosecute individuals and organizations that participate in the unlawful manufacturing, distribution and marketing activity involving marijuana, even if such activities are permitted under state law.”
A lot can change in two years — including the administration’s attitude toward the state-authorized use and distribution of cannabis for medical purposes.
In April, NORML blogged about the U.S. Department of Justice, particularly U.S. Attorneys Jenny Durkan of Seattle and Michael Ormsby of Spokane, threatening “civil and criminal legal remedies” (read: sanctions) against Washington state citizens, including state employees, who assist with or engage in the production or distribution of medical cannabis, “even if such activities are permitted under state law.” The U.S. Attorneys’ threats came in response to an inquiry from Gov. Chris Gregoire, a Democrat, who most likely was seeking ‘political cover’ so that she could publicly ‘justify’ her veto of legislation (SB 5073) that sought to license and regulate the dispensing of medical cannabis to qualified persons, and would have enacted additional legal protections for patients who voluntarily participated in a statewide registry. The threats worked; Gov. Gregoire cited them in her veto statement Friday.
In fact, the threats worked so well, that in recent days U.S. Attorneys in other states with active medical marijuana programs have begun issuing similar menacing statements.
Last week in Colorado, where state regulators have licensed over 800 state-licensed medical cannabis dispensaries, U.S. Attorney John Walsh sent a letter to the state’s Attorney General alleging that the federal Justice Department will “vigorously” prosecute individuals or organizations engaged in “unlawful manufacturing and distribution activity involving marijuana, even if such activities are permitted under state law.” A spokesman for Walsh’s office adds, “In the eye of the federal government, there’s only one type of marijuana. And marijuana is a Schedule I controlled [federally prohibited] substance.”
Arizona U.S. Attorney Dennis Burke fired off a similarly worded letter this week to Will Humble, the director of the state Department of Health Services, which is overseeing the implementation of Proposition 203. Under the law, which was approved by voters last fall and was enacted on April 15, the state must register qualified patients who have a doctor’s recommendation for cannabis and also license dispensaries to provide it to them. However, according to Burke, said dispensaries that are compliant with the state’s law will “not [be] protect[ed] from [federal] criminal prosecution, asset forfeiture, and other civil penalties.”
Finally, in Rhode Island, Gov. Lincoln Chafee announced this week that he is suspending the state’s nascent medical marijuana distribution program, set to begin this June. In March, the representatives from the Rhode Island Department of Health selected three applicants to operate the state’s first-ever, government licensed medical cannabis dispensaries. (The dispensaries program was initially approved by lawmakers in 2009, but the winning applicants were not decided upon until two years later.) Predictably, Chafee’s abrupt change of heart came after receiving a hand-delivered letter from U.S. Attorney Peter F. Neronha Friday threatening to prosecute civilly and/or criminally those involved in the dispensary program.
So what’s the impetus for the Obama administration’s sudden decision to play rhetorical hard ball? NORML Outreach Coordinator and podcaster Russ Belville speculates:
“Mr. Obama’s … true intention is to stifle the development of any viable legal cannabis distribution industry. By sending threat letters to Rhode Island and Arizona, states that have created clear and unambiguous laws for medical cannabis providers to follow, it is obvious that Mr. Obama isn’t opposed to medical cannabis, per se, but terribly opposed to medical cannabusiness.
Belville adds: “If (medical cannabusiness) establish (themselves), people will become accustomed to safe, secure, well-run businesses that deliver consistent, reliable, tested cannabis products. They’ll appreciate the way these places revitalize sagging economies, provide jobs, and contribute taxes to budget-starved localities. They’ll realize all the scaremongering by the government about what would happen if marijuana was legal, even for sick people, was hysterical propaganda. [And] they’ll begin to wonder why we don’t just legalize cannabis for everyone, create more jobs, raise more revenue, and use these established businesses as the distribution points.
dodge said
I don’t want to play Aunt Sally, but no talk about cannabis is worthwhile without mentioning mental illness. I am not qualified to speak on this subject, but there are numerous studies coming out in UK and Europe. A google will fish them out…..it might inform your conclusions…as did a visit to my brothers mental health home.
Keith said
Cannabis doesn’t cause mental illness, it can exasperate a pre-existing condition, but even that can be ambiguous since cannabis can alleviate some symptoms of a disease like schizophrenia while aggravating others. That is a trade off and people in that position have the right to decide how they want to go about treating their illness.
As for everyone else weed is safer than McDonald’s food. Compare the film “Supersize Me” with the film “Super High Me.” In “Super Size Me” McDonalds food is consumed for breakfast, lunch and dinner for a one month period. At the end of the one month experiment the previously healthy film maker is close to death’s door with serious liver and heart problems. In “Super high me” the filmmaker smokes weed all day and everyday for a one month period without any significant health effects. While these are n=1 studies they should give us some pause. There is not a single known death from Marijuana in human history while anti-inflammatory over the counter drugs like Tylenol kill 5-7,000 people per year. Plus there are alot of people who are really sick who only find relief with weed.
The problem is that weed doesn’t fit into a medical model based on pharmaceuticals with pills, and doses. It is a different kind of medicine and it is far safer. the major side effects are, in the words of Katt Williams, “Happy, Hungry, Sleepy.”
The drug war is a radical affront to individual freedom, and it is the foundation of the prison industrial complex.
TransconaSlim said
not only individual freedom, but social and cultural rights as well.
in the 1900s there was an influx of Mexicans to America. Many Mexican workers smoked marijuana to relax after working in the fields. The Great Depression came, which increased tensions as jobs and resources became more scarce. In 1913 California passed the first state marijuana prohibition law, criminalizing the preparation of hemp and its products, as a way to target and deport Mexican laborers.
Otto said
Don’t they ever tire of fighting the same old loosing battles they were fighting when I was in High School? It was the issue of legalizing Marijuana that led me to notice how much our government lies to us and how many issues have hidden motives. Since then I only found out they lie about almost everything.
On the issue of Marijuana, here is an example of how they can’t learn from their own mistakes.
Labor Shall Rule said
[moderator snip]
But in all seriousness, how long will this last? One thing is for sure, the legalization movement is picking up momentum. But NORML needs to stop posing the question of cannabis as whether it’s harmful or not. Evidence from scientific journals have long proved that it does not cause long-term respiratory problems, so that’s already settled. This is about the systemic policing of the lowest sections of the proletariat. It should be framed that way, and not in the “let’s legalize it and tax it” way.
Also, those who want to legalize marijuana need to speak out (even if controversially so) about the need to decriminalize all narcotics. Calling for their consumption is in no way progressive, but being passively silent while disproportionately long sentences are given to (mostly black, latino, youth) offenders sure as hell isn’t either.
Otto said
I totally agree with Labor shall Rule when he siad:
A point well made.
dodge said
http://www.rcpsych.ac.uk/mentalhealthinformation/mentalhealthproblems/alcoholanddrugs/cannabisandmentalhealth.aspx
“Happy, Hungry, Sleepy.” The link above, one of many makes me doubt the wisdom of legalizing….in short I don’t feel happy at all.
Good news is that a cannabis product is making great strides in helping cancer patients overcome symptoms of chemotherapy in clinical trials.
As for me accepting the idea of legalizing other drugs….again no…emphatically, a crack den next door or by a school, beware of what you wish for….you might just get it!
I used to smoke dope….so hands up…yes more than a little hypocrtitical, me. It’s for others to judge if there was any long term problems. Bored and stopped. Bush mills or a Jameson just 2 of the vices left.
Labor Shall Rule said
Dodge,
So are you saying we should lock up drug offenders if the drug they are consuming (or producing) has no medical purpose? This is not the right way to deal with the crack epidemic, brother. The contradiction between small-time dealers and the people is largely non-antagonistic.
Read this article from China Now magazine that was published in 1977, it is short and a little bit more informative than the RCP publication on it. They dealt with drug addiction in a way that didn’t stigmatize those involved in it, but that urged them to come over to something bigger than the habits that they found themselves trapped in.
http://www.sacu.org/opium.html
Keith said
Dodge,
a “crack den” is much more likely to pop up close to a school if narcotics are illegal since there is no way to regulate an illicit market. If the product is available legally then the location of retail centers can be controlled. It is much easier to keep dangerous things away form children if there is a legal market, then if there is a illicit market. My experience in high school was that is was easier to score weed than beer more often than not.
I was pretty unimpressed by the site you linked Dodge. I can produce sites with studies that show weed is safe. And a lot of the stuff on the site is just boogey man stuff. Cheech and Chong covered this stuff. Cheech and Chong movies do not mock stoners they mock what inexperienced people think stoners are up to.
It is an indisputable fact that weed has never ever in human history been the cause of a death; not one. Aspirin, which can be purchased by anyone practically anywhere, causes about 7,000 deaths per year.
Weed is not right for everyone. But that doesn’t mean that it should be illegal.
dodge said
lsr..you talk good sense. Thanks for the link…though I would quibble with just one point you made ‘ The contradiction between small-time dealers and the people is largely non-antagonic’. Actually no I don’t really have a quibble more of an aside, small dealers to be successful try not to antagonise the neighbours hihi, but turf wars and use of children are not unknown. Prison? yes,,,most drug connected prisoners are users ie finance habit with crime. Wifeys part of the world dealers will get a bullet and be found on rubbish tip. A strong message. Yet further up supply chain…important figures stay in the shadows. It used to be said the opulent country houses of England were built on Cotton, Coal and Opium.
Your link provided me with a graphic reminder that there is a more positive and successful method to deal with drugs in our society. The methods were collective involving a large number of agencies but above all it put the addict in the driving seat.
dodge said
KEITH …..WHAT CAN I SAY? You make perfectly reasonable points, ok you were unimpressed with the link. I dug it out because I felt it made some attempt to draw a number of points into the debate. A modest sober assessment. Certainly more work needs to be done. I certainly wont be looking to legalize before I think a thorough investigation of the mental health issues are dealt with.
Meantime dope is as easy to obtain as beer.
In uk needle exchanges and methadone programmes exist.
Prisoners used to smoke dope but a urine test with traces lasting 2 months, they could lose the 1/3 remission on their sentence. They changed to heroin which lasted days. The authorities really scored a goal in their own net.
One other issue worth mentioning is dope as ‘gateway’ to other drugs.
I certainly would not get into a car driven by somebody on dope or a train. So I can’t agree with the boogey man assessment of the link. As it made several good points and as you say several other sites give other views I shall read on……mental health workers often can advise on their experiences. The medical uses of Marijuana are looking fruitful and I look forward to further advances in that field.
Joseph Ball said
All drug use is a great evil which communists should oppose. Cannabis ruins the youth making it hard for them to concentrate on their school work, so that it is much more likely they will end up unemployed when they leave school. It’s hard enough for children in deprived areas of the UK to cope with the disadvantages they face like bad, over-crowded housing and racial discrimination without the social pressure to smoke cannabis adding to their difficulties. Communists should lead by example, end their selfish indulgence in cannabis and encourage others to do the same.
I do accept that governments can often exaggerate the harmful effects of cannabis and that this can encourage rebellious youth to believe it is harmless. It’s worth knowing the actual effects of cannabis. As I said, cannabis effects concentration and regular use will effect the personality reducing the user’s level of motivation. Cannabis use by people with mental health problems is virtually always disastrous leading people with illnesses like schizophrenia to relapse. Heavy, prolonged use can lead to people without any predisposition to develop schizophrenia. The last point is the one the government exaggerates. In the UK they tend to argue that a few years of use can lead to schizophrenia. I have never encountered this. Maybe the people this is happening to are also using drugs like ecstasy and LSD which can cause schizophrenia far more quickly than cannabis.
Keith said
Joseph, a great evil? really? Why is it a selfish indulgence. I much prefer cannabis to alcohol. It is safer, more fun, and no hangover. Why all the puritanism? Cannabis is not for everyone but most things aren’t. I am lactose intolerant. Should milk be illegal because it makes me ill?
Cannabis does not cause schizophrenia. There is no evidence for this claim.
As for the “gateway drug” argument. First, Dodge, this is a logical fallacy. Didn’t all Heroin users begin by drinking milk in the school cafeteria? Maybe milk is the real gateway drug?
Oh, not all milk drinkers turn to heroin? Neither do all cannabis users. Do all Heroin users start on milk? Pretty much.
The only way part of the gateway argument that makes sense is that cannabis users are regularly offered drugs like cocaine and heroin because they have to go to illicit markets. Drug dealers have cannabis and coke. But that is why is should be legal
MLW said
Lulz to stanlinist social conservatism, you’re probably too far gone at this point joey but here’s some food for thought on what schizophrenia is in our retarded aristotalian paradigm and what it really represents
Mike E said
Joseph:
Your claims are really unsubstantiated. And they are the kinds of claims that we have seen from rather conservative forces over and over. The pseudo-scientific veneer is barely coherent, and just intended to cover a very particular moral argument (i.e. that “self-indulgence” is immoral).
Really? This statement is explicitly in opposition to the idea that some drug use is a problem, and should be opposed.
Obviously some drug use is terrible for the people — specifically some drugs are particularly damaging and addictive. I imagine no one here supports long term and habitual heroin, crack and methamphetamine use.
But is all drug use really evil?
What about alcohol? What about nicotine? What about coal miners and baseball players chewing tobacco? What about medical drugs? What about caffeine (drinking coffee and tea)? What about Andean peasants chewing coca leaves?
Those drugs pose some health problem in excess. But a “great evil”? Something that communists should sternly oppose?
Obviously not.
And what we uncover is that Joseph (like many social conservatives) uses the word “drug” to apply to those drugs it doesn’t like, and not to those drugs it does like.
I won’t spend time on Joe’s arguments around cannibis — which claim to take distance from government justifications, and then repeats them.
I particularly like the cranky old man scolding “Cannabis ruins the youth making it hard for them to concentrate on their school work, so that it is much more likely they will end up unemployed when they leave school.”
(“Pay attention, keep your nose clean, get a job!”)
Well, that is an argument against smoking too much pot — not for putting those same kids in prison for possession. Right?
As for the bizarre mumbling about schizophrenia: Joseph makes the claim, then suggests it doesnt have evidence, yet leave it in play. In other words, it is bullshit.
* * * * * * *
Someone raised the “gateway drug” issue. It is a proven fact that 99% of heroin addicts started life with milk, so its clear what really needs to be criminalized. In other words, the fact that addicts “started” with marijuana (or drank beer or visited pool halls!) is hardly a serious argument. It is correlation but not a proof of causality. And hardly a justification for putting people in prison. And the statistical argument the “gateway” deliberately leaves out is that the vast majority of marijuana users don’t become heroin addicts (just like the vast majority of milk drinkers don’t end up shooting heroin).
In fact the whole idea of putting youth in prison to protect them from drugs is absurd on its surface.
* * * * * * *
But after we trim away the throw-away pseudo-science we come down to the real deal:
Joseph writes:
There it is: recreational drugs are a “selfish indulgence.”
And what is such “selfish indulgence”? What defines it? Where does it stop and where does it end?
Is a glass of beer at dinner a selfish indulgence because it too is mood altering?
Is it the very nature of recreational activity? If smoking a joint before a movie is “selfish indulgence” — why isn’t it morally wrong to drink three beers and go dancing?
The RCP had a double argument on drugs:
First, they argued that communists should not break laws lightly. and they pointed out that having illegal drugs made it easier for police to disguise their political repression as routine police work fighting “crime.” In one early project I was involved with, police broke into our store front and taped packets of heroin under our tables — so they could say that our revolutionary youth project was a cover for a ring that secretly sold hard drugs to high school students.
this argument has validity.
But there was often a secondary argument: that “the proletariat needs mental clarity to be scientific, and drugs cloud that.” This is a highly mechanical argument which makes unproven assumption Is it true that mood-altering never produces insights? Or that strict sobreity is an ingredient to political clarity? It is, in fact, another layer of pseudo-science.
And there was a third argument: That same view as Joseph… that it is somehow morally wrong to be “self indulgent.”
Let me suggest a different view of these things:
Life for humans is wavelike. There is work, and then there is recreation. There is awake and then asleep. These form a unity of opposites. And it is universal.
There are times when humans need to focus in a one-sided way (in battle for example), and where it is hard to take time out for other things. But even there, if you study the science of it, soldiers and officers are often ordered to break away from the intense demands of command and battle to do sports or rest — because one simply can’t (and shouldn’t) maintain “all this, no that.”
There is nothing (at all) wrong with taking a time-out, or doing recreation (kayaking, dancing, watching something silly, altering consciousness in historically developed ways).
The problem is when addiction take over — or when “recreation” becomes the center of life (i.e. people lead lives with little meaning except self).
Someone said to me “why is ‘pleasure-seeking’ treated as something wrong in some communist discourse?” And it is a good question. First, because all communists (on some level) do that (since they are humans). And second because the seeming ban on “pleasure seeking” leads to all kinds of harmful distortions (hostility toward sexuality per se, for example, or a justification for an isolated and distorted cadre life that is harmful to both politics and the people involved).
Joseph Ball said
Knowing Mike’s background I am surprised he does not have a greater knowledge of inner-city life and the damaging effects of cannabis use. Mike seems to think that it’s a matter of no consequence for disadvantaged youth to leave school with no qualifications, facing a life of low pay interspersed with long periods of unemployment. Youth unemployment in the UK is running at 20%, black youth unemployment at 50%. What’s Mike’s solution-tell them it’s OK to waste their lives away smoking cannabis. Don’t inner-city youth have enough stacked against them without this kind of attitude? In Nepal, in the base areas the CPN(M) would clamp down on alcohol abuse because they knew this ruined lives and lead to domestic violence. So why should we be any different?
Communists are meant to be leaders. Leaders need to be respected. Although cannabis use is relatively common in the inner-city areas, it is far from popular with the majority of people there. Communists who spend their time getting stoned and acting like fools won’t be listened to by the people and nor should they be. Communists have to be capable of self-sacrifice, as they are asking others to make sacrifices. If they are whinging continually about their ‘me-time’ no-one is going to listen to them.
I never said that my views on the links between cannabis use and schizophrenia are ‘scientific’. Like Mike, I suspect, I have spent a long-time in a milieu where cannabis use is quite common for reasons of radical chic. My comments are based on my observations, I haven’t done a scientific study.
dodge said
I would not step on a bus driven by someone on dope. Nor would I like my tax returns processed by such a person. Under a surgeons knife I would hope his/her team were dope free. Happily random urine tests were carried out at work. Dope can be detected 2 months after use. A negative test meant a person was fired. Drug or alchohol. If a person reported they had a drug or drink problem then procedures were in place to help that person, in a sensitive manner. People have a right to expect the highest standards from workers in public transport, as in other areas.
As for cannabis possession in uk it does not lead to prison but confiscation and warning for amounts deemed for personal use.
Keith , ‘gateway’ as you so graphically demonstrate, ‘ a logical fallacy’ but which in my and many societies is sometimes the path followed, for the reasons you mention. They are illegal. That it can be the thin end of a wedge.
I have observed many health scares, often inflated by journalists and well meaning people to take with a pinch of salt any and every new claims. Eggs, beef(cjd),coffee,MMR vaccine(autism) if it fires the public imagination…then in come the politicians to allay public fears, by which time we are all TERRIFIED. I think I can say we are ill served. A sensationalist press and freeloading politicians and every nut that has an axe to grind. I shall continue to drink coffee in insane amounts and fill the freezer with cheap beef during the next scare. Dope? I think until I see more data I will err on the side of caution in the debate viz. mental illness. There is definitely a connection by my own observation and very sad to see blighted lives. Whether or not research throws up cast iron conclusions, either way, I hope it comes sooner rather than later.
jp said
but many have done scientific studies. I’d recommend starting here: http://www.drugpolicy.org/
most people who drink alcohol are not alcoholics; most who smoke are not living in stupor.
the main point of legalization is that THE HARM DONE BY THE CRIMINAL JUSTICE SYSTEM FAR EXCEEDS HARM DUE TO USE OF MIND-ALTERING SUBSTANCES.
If our brothers/sisters have problems due to misuses or inability to control use, the problem is only reasonably dealt with as a public health problem (as is tobacco use) – NOT a criminal problem. thus the need to decriminalize and/or legalize.
Joseph Ball said
In response to JP-the website he connects to is incorrect Cannabis is harmful for people with schizophrenia. I think some of the confusion maybe between US and UK diagnoses of schizophrenia. I remember when I last studied this (in the 1990s) that the US definition of schizophrenia takes in a lot of things that would just be regarded as life problems in the UK. (I suspect that a lot of people are getting the wrong treatment for schizophrenia in the US as a result.) If you just have some kind of personality problem then cannabis probably won’t do any long-term harm, in moderate quantities. If you have ‘UK-type’ schizophrenia (auditory and other hallucinations, seriously delusional thinking that cannot be rectified through persuasion, counselling etc.) then cannabis use is pretty disastrous. I’ve seen this and heard of this often enough not to need any scientific study to tell me this is the case.
I don’t support the current government policies against drug use. US policy is insanely authoritarian-sending people to prison for simple drug possession is just wrong and stupid. UK law does not really sentence people to prison for simple possession that much, as far as I know. However, drug treatment is fairly poor. Some agencies encourage people to try and ‘control’ their drug use, rather than stop altogether. Narcotics Anonymous is a bit of a religious cult that only works if you are a christian. We really need to develop communist approaches to the evil of drug use. We have to teach people that there is a little more to life than the short-term stimulation of their pleasure neurons. We need a society where drug users can be given support and employment as well as experiencing the peer pressure of communities that want them to stop their selfish, destructive behaviour.
ayayay said
Joseph:
When did Mike ever suggest that youth waste their lives away getting high? I live in a major inner city in the US and you have absolutely no idea what you are talking about. Whether you like it or not, you come off as conservative and ascetic, qualities most normal human beings are not attracted to. I, like most people on this planet, enjoy drug use, mainly alcohol and cannabis (and mixing the two is quite fun as well).
There is only one human society on earth that does not consume drugs. Its the eskimos and inuits and peoples living in like conditions. Care to guess why? Because they can’t grow drugs! Drugs have always been and will continue to be important aspects of human society. We have in innate desire to change consciousness, its in our genetic make up.
We do NOT live in Nepal and we do NOT live in a revolutionary base area. Cannabis does not lead to domestic violence or ruined lives. If it ruins lives its because of America’s drug policies. You should know better than to make such comparisons. As a communist, I think we definitely need to lead by example. The Panthers had a simple rule: don’t be high on duty, and I think that’s one we should all follow.
I get chills down my spine thinking about how people would live if your politics ever gained power in a revolutionary society. The “evils of drug use”? Get over yourself. Socialism needs to tap into the deepest aspects of humanity, and that includes the possibility of tapping into other states of consciousness and exploring it’s vast potential.
jp said
i’ll have to disagree with joseph and for those interested, here’s the relevant (and factually accurate) quick summary on marijuana and mental illness from the Drug Policy Alliance cited by my link:
“Fact: Marijuana has not been shown to cause mental illness.
Some marijuana users experience psychological distress following marijuana ingestion, which may include feelings of panic, anxiety, and paranoia. Such experiences can be frightening, but the effects are temporary.
That said, none of this is to suggest that there may not be some correlation (but not causation) between marijuana use and certain psychiatric ailments. Marijuana use can correlate with mental illness for many reasons. People often turn to marijuana to alleviate the symptoms of distress. One study performed in Germany showed that marijuana offsets certain cognitive declines in schizophrenic patients. Another study demonstrated that psychotic symptoms predict later use of marijuana, suggesting that people might turn to the plant for help rather than become ill after use.[5] ‘
The Drug Policy Alliance is a very sober and evidence-based initiative.
I’m glad to see that your disagreement doesn’t escalate to support of criminal punishment for drug use.
and i’ll disagree strongly that use of substances to produce mind-altering states is selfish or self-destructive, in/of itself. to relax, to perceive differently, to see previously hidden connections; all thesepurposes can and have historically been abetted by drugs, legal and illegal.
a. huxley famously quoting w. blake: ‘If the doors of perception were cleansed everything would appear to man as it is, infinite.’
kemon said
i hake drugs
dodge said
Kemon would you care to share with us the reasons for your stand on drugs, it could be interesting.
http://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&source=web&cd=2&ved=0CD8QFjAB&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.mind.org.uk%2Fhelp%2Fdiagnoses_and_conditions%2Fcannabis_and_mental_health&ei=B1XLTdnyJu7OiAL35MmJBQ&usg=AFQjCNGJtL0_bzuy8yfZ_CGtXWaTHwQd8g
The above link is from MIND a British mental health charity that has over the years fought for a more humane treatment and the rights of those afflicted and support for families.
I hope of interest.
jp said
regarding schizophrenia; many things can act as ‘triggers’: going off to college, for example, but that practice is not socially discouraged.
and if we discuss these issues, let’s remember that these are separate questions from legalization/decriminalization. If marijuana were more dangerous than some(including me) are saying, it would still remain a public health issue – not a criminal one.
dodge said
Public health/crime of course the two are connected. That’s the whole point. Litigation which has become a veritable industry will have a field day too. The whole issue seems clouded because of too little studies…perhaps at the very least a trial period in a certain area, so we might see for ourselves the results. I know from relatives in the police that front line police regarded persuing cannabis users was self defeating and a waste of their time. Lets face it the public want other sorts of ‘crime’ targeted. The general public thought so too. Actually they no longer confiscate as a rule, small amounts. The situation at present in uk and particularly the USA is most unsatisfactory…not rational. It’s a bad reflection on us all legislature police, judiciary, medical and public at large. A burying of heads in the sand. At what age is it proposed that folk might buy cannabis? If it is to be a public health issue, the full rigours of testing will be applied. Any damage to users would expose the sellers to prosecution or civil action with punative damages. It all looks like a can of worms…no wonder the issue has been buried. Nobody wants to go near it.
Added to which a number of high profile murders by heavy users of cannabis with mental problems have been absorbed by people. Yes make it a public health issue and get cannabis tested….that should finally clear the air once and for all.
jp said
actually not true that the issue of decriminalization has been buried. Massachusetts (and now Connecticut is pending) has decriminalized marijuana.
medical marijuana is a separate issue but the trend is positive there as well.
cost savings in law enforcement is now a factor in legislatures’ decision-maiking.
dodge said
jp….glad to hear it….! Don’t know the details …but seems like a step in the right direction. A good opportunity to monitor the results and see what benefits, if any, in practice.
As you so rightly point out ‘cost savings in law enforcement is now a factor in legislatures’ decision-maiking.’ Ain’t that the truth.
Keith said
The late Martin Booth wrote an excellent book on Cannabis called “Cannabis: A History” as far as archaeologists can tell humans have been using cannabis since at least 500 BC. Herodotus write about cannabis you in his history.
Cannabis came to the new world via Asian Indian workers brought to work on plantations (this is the origin of the word “ganga”) they carried the seeds on their person.
The human brain has cannabinoid receptors that are activated when we ingest cannabis so it appears that the plant and the human brain co-evolved.
In other words human being s have been using cannabis for thousands of years. All the discourse about it being “evil” is just shitty bourgeois culture permeating our lives.
Cannabis does not make you lazy or undermine motivation. This is really just an ignorant assertion. Just pause and consider the accomplishments of dedicated stoners. Here is a list:
http://www.miaminewtimes.com/2010-10-07/news/famous-marijuana-users/
The double helix was famously discovered by Franscis Crick while he was tripping on acid.
Dodge says he doesn’t want to be drive in a bus with a stoned driver. Ok. So what? You dont want him to be drunk either. So whatever mechanism keeps your bus driver sober now will keep him sober if cannabis is legal too.
The only danger that “inner city youth” face with cannabis arises from the fact that it is illegal.
The great evil here is puritanism.
dodge said
Yes Puritans, they banned dancing around the Maypole and Mince Pies at Christmas(TRUE)! We were bloody pleased when they buggered off in the MAYFLOWER. Trouble is they morph’ and appear as Health editors of womens journals…dieticians….health experts…sharia lawyers….catholic priests…watch committees and general busybodies. Shakespeare gave us Falstaffe altogether a more satisfying charactor than Hamlet. Better loved by us British anyway. The Anglican church gave up years ago trying to lecture or preach to the working classes here, yer know.
jp said
update on Connecticut: apparently the decriminalization attempt has fallen short, despite significant support.
malik38 said
Obama messin up man I can’t stand liquor I only drink that on occasion gotta be smooth doe but I remember on time I was drunk as a skunk of the grey goose all I know I wake up in dc jail for fighting all all my 9years smoking good I. Never harmed anyone of any weed I be feelin to nice when you drunk you be spinning and shh but when you off that mj you feel like can’t nuthing make you mad. So he need to make dis good plant legal plus we need more jobs in the city plus I kno y’all broke axxes could use them taxes I’m bi polar I keep the best but I’m ready to do how they do in cali on up to the window and purchase like you purchasing a pack of them killer ass ciggs and get any flava of tree I need I love that blue cheese be rite for hours but yeah I say we protest about it cuz I thought obama was kool be he is as dumb as a sack of bricks